What new units would YOU like to see?

Post your comments, ideas and suggestions about a new Z sequel here.

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The_Drummer
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What new units would YOU like to see?

Post by The_Drummer » 2006-12-11, 23:37

If you could come up with a new unit... what would it be?
Sorry, no sea or air, the new Z may not have it =S

Anyway. Mine would be...

The Minelayer (I need a more creative name...)

Name says it all, it's just basically a minelayer. However, the mines look like small spheres in the ground (a bit like a sea mine, its spikey). The mines can only be seen if a radar station is in range, or if a minelayer is nearby. If the minelayer detects a mine, it can pick it up and make it useless.

It has the health of a light, and takes slightly longer than the light to produce.

Apart from mines, it has no other weapon.

Pros - Its balanced... quick to produce, and also, you can't mind enemy territory too well, because it will be easily picked up, and it can also repel quick invasions.

Cons - If it's attacked, and it's alone, it's pretty pooped... :mrgreen:


I particularly like this idea, it makes radar stations useful. (Radar stations are not very useful in the normal Z... all they can tell you is what type of robots the enemy has =/)
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Post by CHYROS » 2006-12-12, 03:53

That's a nice idea. Nice topic, too!

I'd make an armoured car (name needed), which has two heavy machine guns on it (as powerful as the jeep's, but more accurate). It would have a light's armour, and could function as a shock troop. It could reset the boundaries for machinegun-type weapons (I think it's a huge shame the jeep is so bad).

Another useful vehicle could be a portable bridge, that could bridge a body of water to make it accessible to tanks. Reinforcing a robot-only area with tanks would give a player a huge advantage.

A flame tank would be very fun to see, as well. Naturally, the whole concept of flames should be reworked in the first place. Instead of a projectile that is fired over normal range, I'd make flame weapons fire a constant stream of fire, and without the need to the fire to hit the ground before doing damage. It should be an absolute killer against robots, and should do heavy damage against vehicles, but should remain at a slight disadvantage against all tanks. Because of its short range, it would suck against artillery. I'd make it have medium armour, and speed comparable to a medium. As an added effect, it could blow up violently when destroyed.

Another fun addition would be a stealth tank which is invisible when not attacking. It should be detected by artillery, though, and perhaps radars, too. I'd make it fragile and medium fast, but rather powerful and quite expensive.

Much more variety of tanks might make the game too complicated though, so all tanks should have a definite purpose.
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Post by Tanel K » 2006-12-12, 13:28

For singleplayer missions (and maybe rarely on multiplayer maps when starting up), non-produceable Hero Units.

Like "Brad" (Psycho with the HP of a Heavy tank and Light's speed)
Or some new "Allan" (Sniper with 3x more powerful shots, more speed)

And some others.

I had once actually come up with the concept of a 2-machinegunned armored unit, I give full support to that idea :D

Minelayers would very much de-Z-ify the game, too much of a hassle. Plus planting mines around flags would be annoying.

Flame tank - yes - but i'd support Pyros-type flames (with an increased "burning" area)

Stealth tanks as unproducable units would be nice. Also maps where you might have to defend your stealth tank while searching for and destroying the enemy one (no fort stuff). the ST should be detectable by all units at some range of 7-10. A nice idea.

Myself, I thouvht of a Laser Gun. It should have 2 Laser Robot lasers which shoot at about 4-5 times the speed (like a laser machine gun). The range should be 8 and the production time a bit less than the Missile Gun.

Also, the IMO not very good idea of a Persuader Tank. It'd have the HP of a Heavy and the speed of a Jeep/Light. It works by driving right by the side of an enemy tank. It then starts to manipulate it - after 1 sec, the tank can't move anymore. After 1.5 secs from that the tank can't shoot, and it takes 7 more secs to gain control over the robot inside (thus, the vehicle). Cranes should be able to repair disabled vehicles in case the Persuader is destroyed.

In addition, Medium/Heavy armored Magnet Guns. Basically, they could be placed near artillery and their function is to such any incoming bullets/cannon shots into themselves - sacrificing themselves for the gun.
Might need lots of work to keep it balanced.

And mayhaps, instead of bridges, Machine Gun/Laser/Tough Missile operated slightly-less-than-Medium-Armored Amphibious Assault Vehicles (AAVs), which are able to cross water.

That's all for now :D
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Post by The_Drummer » 2006-12-12, 15:51

Hmm. I've been thinking, maybe enter the world of invisibility? =/ That would make a whole new area of Z... Then stealth tanks, mines and all that stuff could become reality - we could have the addition of stealth stuff, stealth robots, spies... that'd be quite cool... Well, i'm hacking into the school server here, so I'll say my idas once I get home ;)

If you have an opinion on invisibilty, say it! ^^

See ya later.
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Post by CHYROS » 2006-12-12, 17:19

Your double post was removed :) .

About the invisibility again; I think, if it were implemented, it should keep to the stealth tank and nothing else. Too much invisibility to worry about might annihilate its surprise effect. The stealth tank should be a unit you'd make only on special occasions, to catch the enemy off guard, not to keep him on his toes for surprise assaults.

Mines would, as Tanel said, probably not fit in that well. It would probably require much too much micromanagement to lay the mines, and it's only frustrating to get rid of them.

About the laser gun; I wouldn't make a weapon that can empty vehicles so powerful. If I were to implant one, I'd give it normal range and much less fireing power than you described. Might make a good replacement for the Gatling though, as Z is really effectively without de-drivering (?!) artillery weapons. Maybe I'd make it laser-resistant (range of 6).

The persuader tanks and magnet guns idea I don't really support, to be honest. It would be much too complicated, and would probably defeat Z's simplicity. I mean, when would you start producing a special unit to protect a stationary gun?! Unit persuasion should be completely out in any case imo. As I said before, I'd handle adding new units very conservatively, only adding units that have a specific job.

I actually think the stealth tank idea is already very revolutionary and should be handled carefully; I'd make it quite expensive when you look only at its statistics. Light armour, medium speed and medium damage; I'd give it a manufacturing time longer than a normal medium. Just to keep it a little unique, and preserve its surprise effect.

Tanel's notion on new robots is interesting; I hadn't really considered that yet. Naturally, the robots should get a major overhaul (I now produce almost only snipers and lasers) in balance, but apart from that, new types of robots might be added too. I just can't think of any. I dunno if hero units should be used though, sounds a little over-the-top...
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Post by The_Drummer » 2006-12-12, 20:45

Hmmmm. I suppose so, Z's simplicity shouldn't be taken away ^^

What about a Mobile artillery? Would that work? It has a range of ten, its armour the same as a jeep (when moving), or light (when stationary), takes the same time to build it as the heavy, and moves as fast as a heavy.When it fires, it has to 'transform', if you like, which makes it stationary. It can't fire whilst moving, and when it fires, the bullet moves as fast as a howitzer's. It can be created in 4*+ vehicle factories, or a 5* fort. This may be slightly overpowered, as it would make Fort sieges too easy... :?

Also, what about a Medic robot? As such, only vehicles can be repaired, and this would be quite handy, as the robot's could now be repaired. It takes as long to build as a psycho, and it has the same health as a psycho. It has no weapons, and it's quite vulnerable. It can be made in 3*+ robot factories or a 3*+ fort. Keep in mind the medic can only heal robots, not vehicles. They heal automatically, and they heal quite fast (one light tank shot would be repaired in 4 seconds).

As for the other suggestions, I particularly like the sound of the AAV (amphibious assault vehicle), and the laser gun - the gatling is hugely underpowered. However, I don't know about the stealth tank - how would they be detected? It'd be a good possibility, but it'd be a very thin line between normal and overpowered. But yeah, it's a good idea if implemented successfully =D
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Post by CHYROS » 2006-12-12, 22:53

The_Drummer wrote:This may be slightly overpowered, as it would make Fort sieges too easy... :?
On the other hand, for any other purpose you'd be better off with a Heavy (same time to make, just as good against guns and gatlings, much better armoured and infinitely better against moving targets).
The_Drummer wrote:Also, what about a Medic robot?
Heyyy, that sounds interesting! Might make robots much more powerful, finally giving them that punch they sometimes lack.
The_Drummer wrote:I don't know about the stealth tank - how would they be detected?
I'd say all artillery could expose it, and maybe enemy units if they got extremely close. The tank would have to uncloak in order to fire, I'd say.
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Post by BallWin » 2006-12-13, 03:41

CHYROS wrote: A flame tank would be very fun to see, as well.
In game is present latent unit - Fire Truck. It is possible to try in game. It not tank, but similar. :idea:
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Post by CHYROS » 2006-12-13, 08:46

BallWin wrote:
CHYROS wrote:In game is present latent unit - Fire Truck. It is possible to try in game. It not tank, but similar. :idea:
I thought that was supposed to put out fires?
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Post by XStrategy » 2006-12-13, 14:15

Medic ..It has no weapons,
I don't like the idea to heal robots.. You know, creators of Z deleted their Robot Repair Facility because it is useless.
Z is very dynamic game, you don't have time to heal robots, because they can die another second from 1 shot of Heavy... Life of robots is not long in this game, no need to heal them.

But Repairing Bot for vehicles will be useful. I did not like RepairStations in Z - it needed too much time to move vehicle to repair and then bring it back - you can loose terrirort during this parade.. But mobile Repair Bot that can heal Bridges, Buildings and Tanks will be useful...

No weapons? No! Did you like helpless Crane in Z? I think Repair bot will have his "Hands" to kill robots and Saw for vehicles...
What about a Mobile artillery?
As for me, I hate long-range units that shoot from another side of the map. No and no to long range unbalanced killers... :)
The Minelayer
Also not good idea to me.. Using small mines needs much time to manipulate, and it is so annoying to loose your troops on enemy mines near the flag.. No fun :(

My own idea, as I said before in another topic, to create Hover Craft - ligh vehicle on AirBag (or smth that) that can cross the water. It will have 1 heavy MuchineGun and can strafe to avoid enemy bullets...

New Robot - JetBot - like in Warhammer4000:Dawn of War, it can use his JetPack (that needs much time to reload) to cross distance by air.
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Post by Tanel K » 2006-12-13, 15:49

Oh and i forgot to mention I also once found out that the heavier machinegun tank already exists - Psychos in an APC :D

The Flame Tank should be a bit better than a Pyros APC though.
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Post by The_Drummer » 2006-12-13, 22:12

ZOnline wrote:
Medic ..It has no weapons,
I don't like the idea to heal robots.. You know, creators of Z deleted their Robot Repair Facility because it is useless.
Z is very dynamic game, you don't have time to heal robots, because they can die another second from 1 shot of Heavy... Life of robots is not long in this game, no need to heal them.

But Repairing Bot for vehicles will be useful. I did not like RepairStations in Z - it needed too much time to move vehicle to repair and then bring it back - you can loose terrirort during this parade.. But mobile Repair Bot that can heal Bridges, Buildings and Tanks will be useful...

No weapons? No! Did you like helpless Crane in Z? I think Repair bot will have his "Hands" to kill robots and Saw for vehicles...
I think that the Medic would be quite useful in early levels. If you have a few of them, then robots would be healed quickly - plus, if they had a handgun or something, it'd be very weak, so its not worth putting it in. But ah well, critique accepted ^^ It sjust that robots are underpowered in the original Z, and they need a few new units to power them up =/
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Post by RavenTS » 2006-12-15, 15:58

Tanel K wrote:For singleplayer missions (and maybe rarely on multiplayer maps when starting up), non-produceable Hero Units.

Like "Brad" (Psycho with the HP of a Heavy tank and Light's speed)
Or some new "Allan" (Sniper with 3x more powerful shots, more speed)
Ever played Steel Soldiers? :wink:
The_Drummer wrote: Also, what about a Medic robot? As such, only vehicles can be repaired, and this would be quite handy, as the robot's could now be repaired. It takes as long to build as a psycho, and it has the same health as a psycho. It has no weapons, and it's quite vulnerable. It can be made in 3*+ robot factories or a 3*+ fort. Keep in mind the medic can only heal robots, not vehicles. They heal automatically, and they heal quite fast (one light tank shot would be repaired in 4 seconds).
Ever played Steel Soldiers? :wink:


My Ideas for a third Z-game:

1. Jeep with Rocket-Launcher
2. Hovercraft with MGs
3. Heavy Artillerie (Long Range, very slow, very expensive)
4. A "great APC" with some or no MGs and a lot of space for 3-5 robot-teams
5. Robots with jumpjets for small jumps over hills
6. Catapult, to kick robots all over the map :shake:
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Post by CHYROS » 2006-12-15, 17:06

RavenTS wrote:4. A "great APC" with some or no MGs and a lot of space for 3-5 robot-teams
5. Robots with jumpjets for small jumps over hills
6. Catapult, to kick robots all over the map :shake:
Again, I'd say stick to things that function well all-around, with one specialism they're really good at. I think pure units transports wouldn't work at all, and units with only a special type of movement wouldn't either.
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Post by The_Drummer » 2006-12-21, 18:27

Ooh! My new idea! ^^

The Swordbot

It is very fast - it has the speed of a Jeep, but it is also very weak, as its health is also equal to a Jeep's. It does the damage of a light, and can occasionally kill the robot inside and take over the tank. IT comes in packs of one, and, as you can tell from the name, its a melee unit ^^ it takes as long as to produce as Snipers, and they appear in 4*+ robot factories and forts.

As for the big APC idea, I quite like it. It'd be very useful for transporting robots around the map, as long as the vehicle is faster than the robots, and has as much health as a heavy to make it last longer :P
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